four years ago, when john mcgain and barack obama had their first debate, obama was up 50-45 before the debate when it was said and done he was up 51-45. four years earlier when kerry and bush went at it, kerry won the first debate, no impact on the horse race numbers the only thing that changed this gives a good perspective, after kerry won the debate, kerry supporters said debates are really important. bush supporters said, not so much. >> gregg: i want to go back to what you pointed out. i remember it well the carter-reagan debate in 1980. democrats and carter had tried to portray ronald reagan as this crazy actor with dangerous views going to create armageddon in the cold war with the soviets. suddenly, america tens of millions of americans tuned into the debates and they said wait a minute, this guy is likeable, making a lot of sense -- >> charming, right. >> gregg: let's compare that to today. the president has been trying to, with attack ads demonize mitt romney as this sort of horrible businessman. might this debate be comeable? -- compareable? >> the debate in '80 was one week